Trump 2.0, Oscars nominations, and an interview with Tom Reese
Heidi, Daniel, and David look at the first week of the second Trump administration, and what listeners can do for self-care and mutual aid. Next, we take a lighter view and look at the various films nominated for the 2025 Academy Awards. Finally, Heidi interviews Fr. Thomas Reese, SJ, about his life in Catholic journalism
INTRO
SEGMENT 1 - Trump 2.0
How to find your representatives’ contact information: This way and this way
Cardinal Cupich speaks out against Trump’s immigration policies
Cardinal Wilton Gregory apologizing to LGBTQIA+ community
J.D. Vance’s calumny against the USCCB
Daniel’s recent column on Bonhoeffer and costly discipleship
RNS column on the “two Christianities”
SEGMENT 2 - Oscars Nominations
The 2025 list of Oscars nominees
The Stringer
SEGMENT 3 - Heidi interviews Tom Reese
Tom Reese bio at Religion News Service
TRANSCRIPT
Segment 1
DAULT: Hello and welcome to the Francis Effect Podcast. My name is David Dot. I host a radio show called Things Not Seen about Culture and Faith, and I'm an assistant professor of Christian Spirituality at the Institute of Pastoral Studies at Loyola University Chicago. I'm here with my friends Heidi Schlump and Dan Horan.
Heidi is senior correspondent at National Catholic Reporter, a publication that connects Catholics to church faith and the common good with independent news analysis and spiritual reflection. Dan is Professor of philosophy, religious studies and theology, and Director of the Center for the Study of Spirituality at St.
Mary's College in Notre Dame, Indiana. He's also affiliated professor of Spirituality at the Oblate School of Theology in San Antonio, Texas. Every couple of weeks we get together to discuss news and events through a lens of our shared Catholic faith. Dan and Heidi, welcome to you both. Heidi. How have you been?
SCHLUMPF: I'm hanging in here. I think many of us are struggling after the first week of the Trump administration, so we're gonna talk about. At later in the episode. But I got a, had a little getaway this weekend. Our family went to Wisconsin to see my parents and say goodbye to them before they take off for their snowbirding in Arizona.
And then we went skiing, which was great 'cause I hadn't been on skis in a couple years and I'm just gonna say at this age. It was a little creaky. It took me a while to get used to it, but by the end of the night I was having a good time and the kids enjoyed it. So that was fun. Also, I just wanted to give an update about the class that I'm teaching at Loyola.
We mentioned that in the last episode that I'm teaching again after a hiatus of many years. So this is just a part-time adjunct position. But it's going really well and I'm really enjoying it. I think maybe, especially in these times, it's really exciting and. Soothing to be with students who are there to learn, and most of them pretty interested in learning, especially about the church and what it has to say about contemporary issues.
So that's been fun and something sort of new on my plate. So, how's your teaching going, Dan?
HORAN: It's going well. We're in week three, and so, the semester is fully underway. I was just thinking as you were mentioning what, you know, hanging in there after this week the phrase that keeps coming to mind rather absurdly is this week has been the longest year I. It just feels like, quite a lot and a lot to digest, and I'm somebody who is pretty routinized when it comes to reading the Times and the post in the morning, and of course, national Catholic Reporter and staying on top of what's happening.
I listen to a number of podcasts and I've really tried to modulate. How much news I'm taking in because it's just so much. And I think that's part of the intention. So, as you said, we're gonna be talking about the first week of the Trump administration shortly, so I won't belabor that. But I will say I'm not a skier, not a downhill skier anyways.
I'm too afraid of gravity for that. And I don't think coordinated sufficiently. But something I haven't done as much over the last year has been traveling. I mean, I do travel quite a bit, I think, compared to a lot of folks, but compared to my previous travel years of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of days moving in, going in an itinerant lifestyle, I've tried to pull back as I've shared on the podcast.
But I will be on the road for the next. Couple weekends for some speaking engagements and then after that a board meeting. So, looking forward to seeing some folks and colleagues that I know and also looking forward to meeting some folks I haven't yet had the opportunity to meet. So, exciting stuff ahead, David.
How are things going with you?
DAULT: They're okay. I mean, like everybody, and we're gonna get into this later in the program, I think we're reeling from the past week. I had my 54th birthday on the 19th of January, and
SCHLUMPF: birthday.
DAULT: Thank you. I am, I'm happy especially after the health scares of 2024. I'm very, very happy to be alive and kicking and to still be causing good trouble as much as I can.
Like you, I'm, I'm into the semester now. My my classes I think are going well. As I mentioned last time, I'm teaching a class in Ignatian spirituality, which I very much enjoy. But also I'm I'm teaching this class on nuclear security and Catholic social teaching, and it's always fun to teach a brand new class because you have no idea how things are gonna go.
And I'm throwing everything in the kitchen sink at the students. And we're, we're being very honest about the parts that are working in the parts that are not. And so I'm learning how to teach this class for the future, which I'm grateful for. But also just you know, as I've mentioned at several points throughout the years of the podcast, I have a real fascination with these questions and.
So getting the chance to play in them and marinate with them is a real joy for me, and I'm enjoying writing. A lot of projects that are going on right now, I'm, I'm happy about. And I'm realizing that in the present climate and atmosphere I am feeling myself. More liberated to say what I think as opposed to editing myself.
So I'm interested to discover my voice again. And so that's all sort of happening and it's really, really, really fun. So, yeah. And, as we're sort of navigating all of this Dan, you mentioned that you aren't traveling quite as much but as we're, as we're moving into the spring, that really is conference season.
And so are you gonna be hitting some of the conferences and doing all that this spring, or are you taking a step back from that as well? I.
HORAN: Oh no. Conference season is conference season, but for us, you know, in theology that really doesn't really hit the ground until May and June. So, that's down the road one week at a time. We gotta get to to midterm and then, easter break, so, yeah, I won't be at LA Rec this year.
I have a conflict with my with the board that I serve on that meets the same weekend. So, won't be out there for Catholic, Disneyland and actual Disneyland across the street. But you know, shout out to our many listeners who do attend that, and I hope it's a good experience for you all.
DAULT: I also have a conflict this year actually because of a board meeting, the Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities. One of the. Conferences. I'm the chairman of that particular sub conference on, I think, theological, pastoral and ministerial education, and that meets the same weekend as LA Rec this year.
But in late February, I'm giving a keynote at the Midwestern Regional a a r conference, and I'm excited about that. That's coming up. I think that's gonna be February 20th. I'll put the, the blurb about it in the show notes, but that's, that's I've not been asked to do very many keynotes in my life. I know that that is something that you get asked to do regularly, Dan and.
I also know, Heidi, you've given several keynotes. I'm a novice at this. So when we're as we're moving forward towards that date, I would welcome any advice that you have,
HORAN: You'll be great.
SCHLUMPF: It's just to talk with more people there. That's all. It's Where is that a r meeting?
DAULT: It's, it's in Springfield, Missouri at, I think the University of Missouri. And again, it, it's the, it's the a a r Midwest Regional Meeting, and I'll put the information about it in the show notes
SCHLUMPF: I'm jealous of all of your travel because I don't have any travel on my docket coming up anytime soon. Although I am going to Youngstown, Ohio in, at the end of April and May, but I also won't be at the religious ed Congress. In la so no Francis effect appearances there. and I'm also having a hard time even finding places to go over spring break because airfare is so expensive.
So I know I've mentioned in the past and met people at my parents' parish in Arizona before, but we're not gonna be there this year. So, keep out. Anybody with any flight deals from Chicago, let me know. It's preferably somewhere warm.
DAULT: and so as we're looking ahead to all this travel and staying still let's also look ahead to what's happening here on our show today. So in our first segment, we're gonna be.
Debriefing the first week, my gosh, the first week of Trump 2.0, and looking at some of the effects that are already rippling through the American infrastructure. In our second segment, we're gonna take a slightly lighter tone and look at the recent Oscar nominations, and then in segment three Heidi interviews Tom Reese talking about his life in Catholic journalism.
So all that's coming up on the Francis Effect. Please stay with us.
Segment 2
HORAN: Welcome back to The Francis Effect. I'm Dan Horan. I'm here with Heidi Schlump and David Dahl. Every couple of weeks we get together to discuss news and events through a lens of our Catholic faith. We are now in the second week of the new Trump administration, and already so many things have happened.
Trump pardoned or commuted the sentences of all the convicted January 6th protestors. He has also ordered that all current prosecutions of protestors must be dismissed. He signed an executive order declaring that the federal government would only recognize two genders, male and female, supposedly assigned at the moment of conception.
Under Trump's orders, officers of the ice, that is the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Administration, began so-called enhanced enforcement, threatening and executing raids in sanctuary cities across America. Trump has also legally dismissed all inspectors general across the federal government. As we are recording this, we have just learned that the Trump administration has ordered a quote, temporary pause, unquote, on all federal funding, both foreign and domestic.
It's unclear at this point how long this pause will be in effect, but the consequences of even a short interruption of essential services and financial support could be devastating for many. This is just the tip of the iceberg, but the results are already being felt across the nation. David, in the midst of this chaos, where should we be focusing?
How are you thinking about this? What can we be doing? I.
DAULT: Well, chaos is the right word. And if you look at the concept of disaster capitalism, the notion. Of creating as much chaos as possible and then sort of smashing and grabbing everything that you can. Institutionally we're sort of seeing that happening across the board right now in the American institutions that have all of our government right now should consider itself under attack.
So what I'm gonna suggest to listeners, and I'll, I will put this in the show notes, is put your representatives on speed dial. And get their numbers into your phone and begin to call them every day. And what should you call them about? Listen, we've got the smorgasbord. And so of all the things that are happening right now, pick one or two things that are directly affecting you or the people that you love.
And call about that every single day and say, this is intolerable. People that I love are under attack. This is directly affecting my family. This is directly affecting my loved ones. And just start calling your representatives and don't let up call them. Every day and put the pressure on. I mean, we don't have the means to create broad, sweeping responses to the broad sweeping attacks that we're currently experiencing.
But that doesn't mean that we're powerless. It doesn't mean that there aren't things that we can do. And you mentioned, for example the pardons that are happening of the January 6th. Insurrectionists. Well, Trump said to all of the judges who are currently hearing cases, he said, you must dismiss these cases with prejudice, which means that once they are dismissed, they can never be brought back for prosecution.
Several judges have already. resisted that and they are dismissing the cases as ordered, but they're dismissing the cases without prejudice, which means that they are withholding the possibility that these will be able to be prosecuted again in the future. Everybody at every position has a possibility of doing something to resist what is going on right now.
And I think I would call on everyone to find your level of comfort, your level of resistance, and go ahead and be resisting. I.
SCHLUMPF: Well, and I too have been inspired by some of the stories of resistance. The January 6th pardons are particularly frightening to me in terms of just throwing out the rule of law and. Sending the message loud and clear that I'm sure people are getting that violence in support of Trump will be acceptable and that you won't pay the consequences for it.
But I also have been a little bit heartened by the response from some religious leaders. To some of the Trump executive orders, especially around immigration. So you both probably saw, and many of our listeners probably saw that video from the Episcopalian bishop, Maryanne buddy that went viral, where she asked the president to have mercy on people who are, you know, who are in part particularly vulnerable spots and that she did so to his face.
While he was sitting there. And it was especially interesting to watch that on a split screen where you could see the folks in the pews around him sort of getting nervous while she spoke truth to power. That was particularly encouraging and I thought brave around the same time. In fact, even before.
The inauguration some of the US bishops and then the US bishops as a whole spoke out about the executive orders around immigration. My own cardinal, Cardinal Sopi here of Chicago had some pretty strong words. On the eve of the inauguration, he was down in Mexico City on a pilgrimage to our Lady of Guadalupe.
And of course there were already, Hints that ICE was gonna be coming to Chicago and now they have arrived here. And then even the Bishop's Conference spoke out, although their message was a little more measured, they said, oh, we disagree with many of these executive orders, but the one about genders we agree with that one.
And by the way, just a reminder that we're not part of any political party, so it was very, very. Cautious in my opinion.
DAULT: Boo.
SCHLUMPF: you know, bishop sites, Bishop Wester, Archbishop, Wester, other bishops, you know, border bishops, like they are speaking out, that gives me some encouragement. I do wonder what the reaction is both in political circles and among everyday Catholics when so much.
So much of the Bishop's Conference has clearly been on board with the Republican Party for so many decades, and now think they're gonna be listened to on this issue of immigration, which they care about, but I at least appreciate the speaking out.
HORAN: Yeah. And it's a really qualified speaking out. As you said, Heidi, there are individual bishops. I saw news breaking earlier today too, that Cardinal Wilton Gregory, sort of in one of his last acts as Archbishop of Washington made a statement. I. Apologizing to L-G-B-T-Q Catholics and the broader community that see strikes me as, as quite meaningful and yet stands in contrast with that transphobic and kind of anti non-binary perspective.
That was conveyed in the U-S-C-C-B statement in response to President Trump's actions. It's got me thinking too about. You know, now that we've seen in this past week following these executive orders the freezing of federal grants and funding that we saw today, as we're recording this on Tuesday, we're also seeing representatives who are associated with president Trump and his administration explicitly calling out Catholic charities, potentially Catholic Relief Services and other organizations that are NGOs sponsored by, you know, various Catholic ministries in the United States as.
As targeted for investigation, targeted for the withholding of funding. And and we saw vice President Vance, you know, go after the U-S-C-C-B in its statement. Again, ironically, he is a convert to Roman Catholicism. I never believe that the Eucharist should be treated as a weapon, but I do see I, I laughed a little bit when you recalled that in their statement.
The U-S-C-C-B says that we're not. Part of any political you know, organization or political party that is laughable because I have not seen any statement from the U-S-C-C-B that comes near what the pushback was on President Biden at his inauguration against somebody like vice president fans who again identifies as Catholic, but holds a lot of positions.
Immigration being first among many. That are in stark contrast to Catholic teaching and the Bishop's own statements. So I mean, I think there's a real imbalance here. There's a real, you know, hypocrisy we might say about what things the U-S-C-C-B collectively is willing to identify as worth their concern.
And even when there is pushback when there seems to be an effort to identify moral concerns it's really tepid. And that's what I, that's how I read the USEC state. CB's statement last week. I think the thing it raises for me too is as Catholic charities as the U-S-C-C-B itself, as particular bishops and maybe dioceses, parishes and the like are targeted by this administration, will there be buyer's remorse from those who have cozied up?
I'm thinking of the soon to be former Archbishop of New York. You know, Cardinal Dolan, who has spoken very highly of President Trump, who gave a you know, a prayer, an invocation at the inauguration. He was one of five ministers who did probably the least actually politically kind of worked up compared to the others who were more or less hailing Trump as you know, God's anointed.
But nevertheless, you know, he's, I think an example, and we talked a bit about him last week or the last episode. I think these are folks who I would invite to think about what does it take to regret this sort of positioning? And it is a, an overtly political positioning. And I don't know, David, I'm curious about what you think.
You often have some good quips and insights about this sort of thing, but I'm thinking of the the old you know, what is it? Allegory of the scorpion on the back of a turtle crossing the river, you know, and the punchline, spoiler alert, you know, the scorpion convinces the turtle to swim him across the the water and on the other side, you know, stabs the turtle and says what's up?
And the scorpion says, you expect me to be something other than I'm, than I am. You know? So what do you think about all of this?
DAULT: member of the Leopards Eating Faces Party says. I never expected that the leopards would eat in my face. I have a really cynical notion about what's gonna be happening here because we're already seeing it playing out. So, not only did JD Vance take a strong stance against what he would consider to be kind of Catholic social justice, but he also engaged in ny.
Claiming that the Catholic organizations, including the U-S-C-C-B, were profiting from human trafficking. Alright. A completely unsubstantiated claim with no evidence. And yet he felt at liberty to use his bully pulpit to make that kind of callous accusation to, to engage basically in gossip at a national level, which is really incredibly.
Disheartening and scary. But what I think is gonna happen is we're gonna see American Catholics sort of falling into several categories. In the wake of this, there're gonna be several Catholics that are gonna be really happy that people like Trump and JD Vance are attacking the CNOs, the Catholics in name only, who they don't think are legitimate Catholics.
And that includes people who are standing up for migrants at the border. That includes people who are standing up for justice across the various places here in, in the nation. And they're gonna say, well, good that finally the cages are getting rattled and we're gonna get these non-Catholic Catholics out because they were never really Catholics.
Anyway, that's unfortunately my prediction about what's going to happen. And I'm curious because, you know, one thing that I sort of noticed, and we've remarked on this in years past we really did notice that when the U-S-C-C-B was speaking out against the Obama administration and the Biden administration, they would name the administration directly.
They would say the Biden administration, the Obama administration, but they would never name Trump directly. One thing that I have noticed this past week is that the U-S-C-C-B has been naming Donald Trump directly. I don't know what to make of that, but that is a real sea change in everything that has been going on.
My hope is that that means that there are at least some at the U-S-C-C-B that are willing to actually act like bishops. But I'm, you know, it's so early and I have so little evidence of why I should be hopeful about that.
SCHLUMPF: Well, David, you mentioned the comments from JD Vance and I thought those were particularly interesting. For a while there he seemed sort of behind the scenes like he had disappeared and now he's back with a vengeance attacking his own church. So I think that gives us some hint of what we can expect from him.
You know, there are a number of Catholics who are. Going through the confirmation process to be part of the cabinet. I'm working on a piece that looks at who those Catholics are and the question remains about them too. Like, how are they as officials in the administration, will they be listening to their church or taking what the church teaches and practices into account in the work that they do?
Whether Catholics or any other. Trump supporters have buyer's remorse, I think remains to be seen, but I think it's very unlikely because their sources of information won't be giving them the truth about what's going on. And so, it's even more important, I think, for people to be careful about the news that they're consuming and the sources of news that they have so that they can know what's really going on and how serious many of these things that are happening are.
HORAN: I keep reflecting on something you said in the last episode, David, about, I think you were paraphrasing Hana, rn and this notion of this sort of like constant barrage of distractions and this kind of fire hose of, you know, breaking news. I find myself struggling to find the balance right on the one hand to see what happens and not just respond to everything that is said or something to that effect on the same, you know, on the other hand, I guess I would say that I'm concerned that that runs the risk of.
You know, being too late for something, right? If what is being presented is in fact a forecast of what is to come, then waiting around for that, you know, action to take place might be too late. I don't know if you have thoughts about that. I.
DAULT: Well, I'm thinking again, of what? Heidi you mentioned earlier in this segment, and that was the remarks of Bishop Buddy who is an Episcopal bishop and the willingness to simply say what Jesus said when his ministry began. You know, I am come to preach good news to the captives and the poor. If we can just start there.
As a kind of focal point. And the thing that you said Dan, about Hana or Rent is exactly right. What we're experiencing right now, particularly the spending freeze at all levels of government. It's designed to send people into disarray because now people will not be able to get snap payments.
They won't be able to get other sorts of support. Like basically it's designed to create maximum chaos and Everyone is going to be looking in every other direction and trying to scramble to, care for themselves and those that are near to them. What I'm gonna suggest again to everybody is think about the things that are directly affecting those that you care about, and think about the prisoners and the poor, those that are in some way under threat and vulnerable right now.
if we can keep the focus there and if we can keep pressure on our. Episcopal, you know, thank you to the Episcopal church for speaking truth to power. Now it is time for our bishops like Cardinal Soup and others to stand up and to use their platforms to actually speak out very directly.
And I hope that they will speak out not only on behalf of immigrants and refugees as they have been, but they will change their tune on L-G-B-T-Q-I-A persons as well, because to use the phrase. It is one common, consistent ethic of life that we're talking about here. And you can't throw one group over the edge of the boat and say, but now we're gonna be, we're gonna be the church for these other vulnerable people, but not those vulnerable people.
So that, that's my initial thought, Dan. I'm wondering what you think about this.
HORAN: Yeah, I would agree. I think going back to Bishop Buddy's sermon, the other thing that's striking about that is there was no overt condemnation. There was no, despite. Trump's tweeting or truthing or whatever he calls it. There was nothing nasty about you know, her remarks, it was an embodiment of the gospel, which is what a sermon, what a homily is supposed to be about.
It's taking the truth of revelation and making it applicable to the time in which we find ourselves. And so that's what everybody who has a position of teaching and preaching, including as you rightly say, David Catholic Bishops as much as our Anglo. Anglican communion siblings, like Bishop Buddy have.
But I think it's striking that the thing that people found offensive was just the gospel. And I think it puts into stark relief the truth that St. Paul talks about in the first letter to the Corinthians. I. What we preach is going to be a scandal to some and gonna seem foolish and absurd to others, particularly those who operate according to what he calls the wisdom of the world, right?
And not the wisdom or logic of God. And you know what he says too, is like what we preach is Christ crucified, and that is the scandal. And what got Jesus killed? That wasn't Jesus name calling. It wasn't Jesus withholding funds. It wasn't Jesus insulting people. It was Jesus. Showing mercy. Jesus loving saying that nobody is excluded.
Jesus challenging people to live God's will more authentically, and I think that's also something we need to do. You're exactly right. When we think about like the works of mercy, what can we do in the spirit of subsidiarity at the local level where we can have the greatest impact, but also what can we do spiritually?
What can we do to be serious about what it is we say we believe and what the consequences are? You know, I wrote in a column recently. Thinking of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who, you know, lost his life because of his witness, his Christian witness. And he also wrote about how discipleship is costly, grace is costly.
that's not the optimistic poppy, superficial kind of enjoyable Christianity that I think a lot of people want the feel good Christianity. It is the, it's the real Christianity that leads to God incarnate dying as a convicted criminal on the cross.
SCHLUMPF: I saw that described in one column in religion, news service as kind of, two Christianity. So the Christianity that Bishop, was preaching straight from the Sermon on the Mount and sounding like Pope Francis and calling for Mercy. And yet then you have this Christian nationalism on the other side and the reaction to Bishop Buddy I thought was predictable but also a little bit scary because you saw people in Christian and Catholic circles just completely dismissing what she said and attacking her personally.
You know, how dare she in such a situation. You know, her own church you know, speak that way to the president. Some people called her a witch and questioned her ordination as a woman. So yeah, I think that if the comfortable felt afflicted, that was probably a good thing because I think that's what we know the gospel can do.
So, I think we're, if people are going to speak out, and I hope they will, religious leaders and everyday Catholics, they should prepare for. That blowback from Christians themselves or so-called Christians.
DAULT: Well listeners, if you are feeling afflicted at this particular moment by all of the onslaughts from those who have power in our country, we hope that we can be in solidarity with you and of some comfort to you, but also if you are feeling emboldened to speak out and to bring affliction to the comfortable and those that would would harm others.
We want to stand in solidarity with you as well. With that. We're so grateful that you are part of this conversation. This is only the first couple of weeks and so we have a long way to go, but let us go together supporting one another with mutual aid and with support and solidarity and where we can let us be in communication to encourage one another.
So thank you for listening to this part of the conversation. We're gonna take a quick break. You're listening to The Francis Effect. We'll be back in just a moment.
Segment 3
DAULT: Welcome back to The Francis Effect. I'm David Dalt and I'm here with Heidi Schlump and Dan Haran. Every couple of weeks we get together to discuss a variety of topics from a perspective informed by our Catholic faith. It's that time of year again, entertainment award season. Although the unprecedented wildfires in Southern California have had tragic effects and impacted some of Hollywood's annual milestones, such as postponing events like the Critic's Choice Awards, twice, the industry has generally announced that the show must go on The Golden Globes, which took place on January 5th and traditionally launches award season is largely considered a preview of what might unfold in terms of nominations and wins at the Academy Awards.
Coming up in a couple of months after a week long delay in the announcement of the 2025 Oscar nominations due to the Los Angeles fires and the academy's desire that all voters had sufficient time to submit their ballots for nominations. The results were released on the morning of January 23rd.
A new record was set by a non-English language film with Amelia Perez earning 13 nominations. Three more than the previous record holders. Following close behind were the brutalist and wicked, which each earned 10 nods. The Bob Dylan biopic a complete unknown and the surprising papal thriller conclave.
Each received eight nominations. In addition to these five films, five others are nominated for the best picture category. These include an Nora Dune, part two. I'm Still Here, nickel Boys, and the Substance Alongside the coveted best picture category. History was made within some of the other top awards, including the first openly transgender woman nominated for best actress with Carlos Sophia Gascon from Amelia Perez, receiving the nod Timothy Chalamet from a Complete Unknown and Dune part two followed James Dean as the youngest two-time best actor nominee. And Coleman Domingo from Sing Sing is the first black actor to receive back-to-back nominations for best actors since Denzel Washington.
There's a lot of heavy and disturbing news nationally and globally these days. So the opportunity to talk about something lighter and entertaining appealed to us this week. Dan, regular listeners may recall that you are a movie fan, Dan, regular listeners may recall that you're a movie fan and have a tradition of trying to see every nominee for best picture before the Oscar ceremony every year. What have you seen so far and what do you think about the 2025 nominees?
HORAN: Well, I have seen six of the 10 so far five of which I had seen before. The nominees were announced last Thursday. So, I was on track about 50% of the way there, which is. Not unlike where I was last year about five or six out of the 10 nominees. In some ways it feels similar to last year in which it's not entirely clear to me that there's a an absolute front runner just yet.
And again, I still have four more to see. I've been surprised by a couple of things that we can talk about. One of which is that there, I mean, there's just such a range. You have kind of creative, innovative sort of films such as Amelia Perez, which is, I'm sure if it wins, like it did the Golden Globe, the best picture it's gonna be the target of a lot of transphobic and kind of hate.
Speech and pile ons about, you know, how quote unquote out of touch Hollywood is and so forth. I have mixed feelings about that movie for other reasons. I, for instance, I don't think that the musical theater elements of it bring particularly much to the project itself. It's an interesting story to begin with.
For those who aren't familiar it's in Spanish, it takes place. Primarily in Mexico. There is a Mexican cartel leader who is a trans woman who wants to transition into being you know, her, embracing her full identity as a woman but has a family and is obviously this cartel boss and needs to make this happen and enlists an attorney who kind of facilitates this whole process.
And then there's a little bit of a Mrs. Doubtfire kind of situation in which years later, as somebody has. Fully integrated into society as a woman named Amelia Perez wants to come back and be close to her children. And so there's a lot that unfolds there. It's an interesting story, but I was not compelled by the musical.
The thing is, I like musical theater. I saw Wicked in the theater on stage and thought it was well done. Obviously there's some classical, like contemporary classical songs that people know, like, defy Gravity and. Popular and these sorts of things, but I have not been eager to see the movie especially since it's two hours and 45 minutes long.
And it's only the first part of the, of the show. And so, now it's on the list, so I'm gonna have to watch it. I'm not looking forward to that, although I felt the same way about the biopic Elvis last year. I believe it was last year. And I actually enjoyed that more than I expected. So, who knows?
There's some really interesting movies and I don't know what either of you have seen, but I could talk all day about the ones I have. So let's, Heidi, have you been taking any of these in?
SCHLUMPF: Yes. So I never even aim to see all of them 'cause that's probably a little unrealistic for me. But I've usually seen a couple and that's the case this year. So far I have seen two. So I have seen Wicked we saw that over Christmas vacation and it is long, but it's entertaining and well done. I remember that some.
Conversation around the themes of fighting authoritarianism, but I didn't catch those as much. I was just enjoying the singing and the dancing and the storyline. But definitely worth seeing and it helps that a lot of these Oscar nominees are available on streaming, so you don't have to go to the theater.
But a couple weeks ago two girlfriends and I decided to go see the Bob Dylan movie, A Complete Unknown, and all three of us, pretty big Bob Dylan fans. And we were blown away by it. I mean, Timothy Chala me, I knew he could sing, but he was amazing. And I don't know if it's a best picture, but I, he, I hope he wins for Best Actor.
'cause it was pretty amazing. My sister also saw it and her. Comment also was something that I felt, which was, you know, it really does a great job of capturing, you know, New York in the sixties and just that whole counter-cultural time and the idealism of trying to, you know, fight injustice.
And there was. Seeing it in these times makes you wonder is there that similar kind of counter movement, you know, brewing or going to happen now? And so it made me a little wistful about the sixties, which was bound to happen. So I liked both of those. I have not seen conclave yet, so the fact that I know isn't that crazy but the fact that it's nominated will make me more likely to go.
What about you, David?
DAULT: Oh my goodness. Well, I have to admit to everybody and to you, my two dear friends, that I have not seen any of these movies. It's not because I am, I'm particularly resistant. Into musical theater or to anything like that. I just, I'm at a stage of life where we have family members who are immunocompromised.
And so I don't go out to a lot of public events, and when I do I'm still masked. And we just, we have two teenagers who are special needs, and so there's a lot of attention there. So we just don't go out to the theaters much. And a lot of these places are very intentionally. Only releasing in theaters.
I think in the wake of the Scarlett Johansson lawsuit. You know, the the days when things would be released, both in the theater and for streaming at the same time are long gone. I wish that it was still the case 'cause I would love to see these things. I just don't have the material opportunity to do it, but I'm loving living vicariously through the two of you, so don't let me stop you.
Please keep going.
HORAN: Well, and I think, you know, it is potentially the best of both worlds. And last year, you know, I didn't go to the theater to see everything. This year it's the same thing as well. It's been probably 50 50, maybe even less. In that, a number of the films that are nominated, I. Came out earlier last year.
And so you could see them on streaming services. So like Dune part two came out months and months ago. It's available on the HBO streaming platform, as is a number of other films. I believe in Nora Conclave, I think might be on Amazon or one of these programs. And some of them are now you know, after they've been in the theater for a number of months are available for rent, which is usually much cheaper than the price of one ticket, let alone a thing of popcorn or soda at the movie theater.
These days though, I do enjoy going to the movies. I'll admit I wish I could do it more often, but my schedule and other obligations prevent that. I'll say if I can, since I've seen, you know, six of the 10 of these so far, just to comment on a few of them as well. I saw, I did see a Nora in the theater a while ago maybe shortly before Christmas, in that kind of peaceful time between the end of the semester and the beginning of the holiday break.
And, you know, it was receiving a lot of awards. I believe it won best picture at the Con Film Festival. And I thought it was fine, but I didn't quite understand all the hype. And so I'll be interested to see, what happens as we draw closer and how that fares. There's been a lot of yeah, a lot of accolades for it and it's a fine enough movie, but I wasn't happy with the ending.
I'll just leave it at that. Conclave is a masterpiece. It really is. And I've seen a number of people on social media talking about it. As a theologian, as somebody who was in religious life for 20 years, as somebody who understands the system and how this works really well. In terms of the actual pr, the.
The practice of the conclave to lock these cardinals in the Sistine Chapel and everything that leads up to it. Having been a theological parus at a general chapter of the Franciscan order and seeing how these sorts of dynamics do unfold about the politicking, the networking, the seeing who the candidate's gonna be, this is how the church actually works because the church is made of human beings.
And I thought that the director did a wonderful job conveying that. I had to suspend my disbelief when it came to some of the little details. And I think that's okay too. But I highly recommend it. A lot has been made of the surprise ending. I won't spoil anything here. But I think it was really interesting, and I don't think it was as much a some people have complained that this was like a culture warrior sort of, distraction.
And I, I actually think if we take theologically, if we take historically what happens at the end of this movie seriously, it could invite a lot of really interesting conversation. I'll say this, I did see recently on streaming the substance with Demi Moore and I had heard a lot about it and a number of interviews with her.
And honestly, I wasn't looking forward to it because it seemed just, I couldn't quite wrap my head around it. In the same way I couldn't quite wrap my head around the TV series severance until I started watching it. But, I would say that it is the product of if for instance, Quentin Tarantino and Stanley Kubrick had a baby, which is kind of apt for what unfolds in this or spawned a creature.
I think that director could have made this and maybe did, I think there's a lot of really interesting commentary about, you know, beauty image, the male gaze, what people are willing to do not just in Hollywood, but especially in Hollywood, about appearance, about age, all sorts of things. But it gets really, it's been described as a kind of comedy horror movie, and it is horrific, but not in the kind of Friday the 13th kind of chainsaw, massacre sort of style.
It's horrific because it takes to an absurd length the kind of moral question that we have about, you know, beauty types and image and what people are willing to do to maintain or to access some of those things.
DAULT: So listeners, you were not able to see the look of shock and horror that just crossed my face when Dan gave that description. So I'm gonna ask you two questions, Dan, because you're locked into this in a way that I am not. So when we think about a movie like the Substance, and you said it, it's not like a Friday the 13th kind of horror, would you classify it more like.
Darren Aronofsky and David Cronenberg. The kind of body horror that we might get from video drum or the fly or movies like that. Is it similar to that kind of horror?
HORAN: Absolutely. I think the fly probably was very influential in the thinking of the story and then the directing. I think the feel of it feels to me more like on the one hand, the kind of horror or gore that's like. Intentionally over the top that you see with Tarantino. You know, think of Kill Bill for instance.
Just like, just so much blood. I'll just leave it at that. I think that Kubrick, I'm not the first to make this observation, but the kind of setting, there are scenes that are almost one for one to the shining in terms of its direct influence. So like one example that is, is so idiosyncratic. To Kubrick, the Shining, which is this, the stark red tile in the bathroom scenes where Jack Torrance is talking with the ghost of the previous caretaker.
There are a number of bathroom, key bathroom scenes in which the decor is that same color, red, which is just not something bathrooms are. Ordinarily de designed to look like. So, but I do think, yeah, that what you described David, as like the tradition of body horror that is literally what's going on there is metamorphosis kind of underway.
Not unlike the fly in a really disturbing way.
DAULT: So I've got a, I've got another question that's completely unrelated to Body of Horror, but. My wife and I, what we have been doing recently is we really kind of get onto trajectories where we watch films with similar themes. And I think I've mentioned before, you know, we watch regularly, a couple times a year, we'll watch the post.
And then we'll watch all the President's men, and then we'll watch Spotlight, and then we'll watch a movie called The Report. And so those work together really well thematically, because they kind of have similar characters or in some cases the same characters. And so my question to you about Conclave is it a movie that would compliment being watched with a movie like the Two Popes?
HORAN: Oh, that's interesting. That's an interesting juxtaposition. I think they could I, I almost wonder if there is a non ecclesiastical, non-religious type genre that we could put conclave in, because I think what it unveils is less about, less about something kind of spiritual or like, the, those spirituality is present throughout and faith.
The question of faith, the question of justice, the question of of God's presence and the work of the Holy Spirit, how the Spirit does or does not work through these fallible, imperfect church leaders. I think it's much more about a, it's kind of like a study of. Like real pik in the church. And I think that doesn't, it's not necessarily oppositional to the working of the Holy Spirit.
You know, the spirit works through us. And I think there are multiple times in that movie, there's one very powerful scene where a cardinal who is resistant. To being the candidate for Pope. Things are happening that he is becoming a candidate for Pope. And then there's this major interruption.
I don't wanna say anything about it 'cause it's really a, an important part in the movie where there is a big, bright light that, you know, is clearly signaled as a kind of divine intervention. And I think. This particular cardinal and the rest of the cardinals also interpret it in that way. So there are these kind of like extreme instances of sort of the presence of God.
But then there are these questions about, you know, the kind of raw politics of human beings who, at the end of the day, this 120 or less septuagenarian. Generally men are gonna gather in this chapel and they're gonna have to by vote elect somebody. Typically from among themselves. So, yeah, there are some, you know, there are some curve balls thrown in there.
I would say the, when you talked about spotlight there are also references to clergy sexual abuse and other things that surface that are really, I think, done cleverly and respectfully. And interestingly so, I don't know if that answers your question exactly, David, but I think definitely on this list of what I've seen so far, you and your family would probably appreciate conclave, maybe most of all.
And Heidi I think it's like a scandal that you haven't seen it yet, especially since it's on streaming and you are a premiere, you know, religion reporter. I mean, I cannot believe this.
SCHLUMPF: Well, you've talked me into it. I was planning to see it anyway. It's just a matter of wrangling my husband into going with me. I don't think you've talked me into substance with all that gore description, but, there's one other film that I'd like to mention.
It's not nominated for an Oscar, but we just had a couple stories about it in NCR over the weekend. It's a documentary called The Stringer, and it was at Sundance and it's been released now for people to view, and I haven't seen it yet, but I will because it features NCR former publisher Tom Fox in. The documentary and the whole topic is that famous photo from the Vietnam War, known as the Napalm Girl, where she's running, screaming down the road, naked after the bombing.
And there's some question about who actually took that photograph. And Tom Fox, who was doing service work he opted out of military duty but was working in Vietnam. Has some insight into that and believes it was Misattributed. And so he's in that documentary and I'm very interested in seeing that.
So I'm always interested in the documentary category too. And I actually haven't checked those yet in that, in the Oscar nominations. But I'm picturing a lot of time in front of my TV over the next cold months, getting ready for the Oscars.
HORAN: There you go. Yes. Stream conclave first and foremost. I don't think stringer is I'm just looking over the list right now. It's not nominated for documentary, film or short. But that is something
SCHLUMPF: I think 'cause it just came out. It
HORAN: Oh, so it'll be for next year.
SCHLUMPF: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
HORAN: One, one other movie I saw recently, it's not in the top 10 for Best Picture, but the two lead actors are both nominated, both for best actor and supporting actor.
And that is The Apprentice about the relationship between. The infamous attorney, Roy Co. Roy Cohn and Donald Trump. And I was resistant to watching that as well because to be quite honest, we have enough of real Trump right now. And yet I found myself, you know, the two actors are contenders, you know, for these major prizes.
I, I think very highly of Jeremy Strong who plays Cone. And so I did watch that. I watched it earlier this week or over the weekend rather. And it was. It was better than I expected. It was, it really was very good. It, I have mixed feelings ethically about the humanization that it provides for Trump.
Like obviously Trump is a human being and a person with dignity and value, despite actions that might speak to the contrary. But I do wonder when you juxtapose somebody to somebody who is much, much more kind of egregiously malicious like Roy. Cone famously was what that does, especially in this moment.
So at the end of the day, I was kind of shocked that, you know, this movie was really being attacked by Trump when it was playing the different, you know, movie festivals and first aired overseas and there was some concern that an American distributor might not wanna take it because of the negativity that it was receiving.
I, I actually think Trump kind of comes off maybe better than he ought. And so I'm, I, maybe he just doesn't like not being in control of his own image. And it does show him kind of growing into a cone like character that we see on display today. And so maybe he wants to. You know, he's offended that he doesn't, he isn't, you know, born from the womb with this kind of MAGA America first attitude.
Who knows? But I do think both of the actors did do a tremendous job in that movie.
DAULT: Well, listeners, if you are like me and you haven't seen any of these movies yet, you now have a list of those to watch and to begin to put on to your radar. I. And if you have watched all these movies, we would love to hear what you think of them. So please feel free to write to us and let us know.
We're grateful for your participation in these conversations. And we're gonna take a quick break. You're listening to The Francis Effect. We'll be back in just a moment with Heidi's conversation with Tom Reese about his life in Catholic journalism. Please stay with us.
Segment 4
HEIDI: Welcome back to The Francis Effect. I'm Heidi Schlump with today's guest, father Thomas Reese, a Jesuit priest and longtime Catholic journalist. Readers of the National Catholic Reporter will know Father Reese's work from his signs of the time column, which has run in the paper since 2013. It's currently syndicated through religion news service.
Father Reese spent much of his career at the Jesuit Magazine, America first as an associate editor, and later as editor in chief. In 2005, he resigned as editor under pressure from the Vatican. Shortly after Cardinal Ratzinger became Pope Benedict six.
Ratzinger had long been critical of Reese's tenure as editor because he had published authors who were critical of the Vatican on controversial issues such as same-sex marriage and the reception of communion by Catholic politicians who support legal abortion. Reese entered the Jesuits in 1962 and was ordained in 1974.
He studied at St. Louis University, the Jesuit School of Theology at Berkeley. The University of California at Berkeley, where he earned a doctorate in political science. He has served as a senior fellow at the Woodstock Theological Center in Washington DC and as a visiting scholar at the Marula Center for Applied Ethics at Santa Clara University.
Tom is the author of many books and his trilogy about the organization and politics of the church has been required reading for anyone trying to understand Catholicism. Those three books are Archbishop, a Flock of Shepherds and Inside the Vatican. More recently in 2014, president Barack Obama named Father Reese to the US Commission on International Religious Freedom that that commission is an independent bipartisan commission that reviews religious freedom violations and makes policy recommendations.
He served two terms on the commission, including a year as chair. So Father Reese recently wrote a column looking back on his life as he approached his 80th birthday. So first of all, happy birthday
TOM: Yeah. Thank you very
HEIDI: Welcome to the Francis Effect.
TOM: Thanks. It's wonderful to be with you.
HEIDI: So now did we miss your birthday? It was in January, correct?
TOM: right. Well, it was a couple of weeks ago, but I'm still celebrating.
HEIDI: Oh, good. Well, we'll continue to celebrate here on the Francis Effect and start by letting our listeners know that we will link to the, to the column in our show notes. In that column, what I was struck by is how you look back on your life 80 years and you talk about all the things that you're grateful for.
And one of the things you wrote was quote, looking back. I now see that whenever a door closed, like for example, not getting a job I wanted or getting fired, a better door opened end quote. So what do you think in your life are some of the major doors that have been opened for you in, in your 80 years?
And how do you see that as, as God working in your life as you wrote?
TOM: I have a confession to make and you can give absolution. Jesuits are supposed to be very good discerners and guides for discernment. I think I probably can help people discern, but I'm a terrible discerner for my own life. I can only see the hand of God looking backwards. I can rarely see it looking forward.
So a number of times I wanted a particular job and didn't get it. And, the result was better in the long run. For example, in the late seventies when I was working as a lobbyist, a job opening occurred at the Jesuit conference. This is our national office and they have a secretary for justice and Peace.
And I said, wow that's me. I'm all for justice and peace. So I applied for that job. And in the interview with the search committee, it became clear that their view of the job and my view of the job were not in sync. So I didn't get the job well because I didn't get the job. I was freed. Go to America Magazine as, and work there as associate editor so that.
Got me started on my journey as a journalist. So that's the beginning. And then in 1985 the editorship of America Magazine became open. I. Again, I prayed, I discerned and proved to be wrong again. And I didn't get the job. So I ended up going down to the Woodstock Theological Center where I wrote those three books you mentioned on the organization in Politics of the Catholic Church.
Those would not have been written. If I had been Editor of America Magazine and I could go on and on it just shows that God has a better idea for me than I ever had, and it just, again, shows what a poor discerner I am that I can only see God in the rear view mirror.
HEIDI: Hmm. Well, I think that just makes you human, Tom. So I think that's true for most of us as we, it's hard to see God in the messiness of, of what's going on sometimes in the present, but looking back we can, and it takes a discerner to be able to do that, reflecting back too. So, so you weren't necessarily always dreaming to become a journalist from when you were a young child.
I know you, you mentioned your first job was as a tax reform lobbyist. How is it that you, do you see yourself as a journalist now and what is it do you think attracted to you to journalism? How do you, and looking back, what are some of, have been some of your highlights and some of the lows of, of being a journalist for all these decades?
TOM: The fact that I became a journalist is a miracle. I hated writing when I was in high school and in grammar school in high school, I could not spell to save my life. You know, remember, I don't know if when you were a kid they had spelling bees in the classroom. Well, I was always the first kid to sit down.
I always thought that was a stupid system because the kids who knew how to spell got the most practice, whereas those dumb kids always sat down right away. So I never. Ever dreamed that I was gonna be a writer. I hated high sch, you know, English classes in high school. I loved to read, but then they'd say, well write a, write an essay on this short story or write an essay on this poem.
And I'd say, I don't understand the poem and the short story. I liked it. What else do you wanna know? I had no idea what I was supposed to write. It wasn't until I was able to write on things I was interested in. I became a writer. By being a lobbyist, I had to write testimony. And at the tax reform group that we had, we also had a publication called Tax Notes, which is now a multimillion dollar operation.
But in any case, I would write and there was a editor of that publication. Jim Byrne, wonderful guy who was an editor, a real editor, and a real writer, and he taught me what a lead was, how to put together a story on that, and that's how I became a writer. It was not, it was, again, never planned.
HEIDI: Hmm. Well, what do you, you, I mean, you eventually do see yourself as a journalist, and what would you say are some of the best things you've done as a journalist? You mentioned the three books of course, but what are you think some of the highlights.
TOM: Well, certainly the books I wrote were highlights of my career as a journalist. But also, you know, it's just cranking out those stories time after time. It's the accumulation of all the work and the writing. I remember some of the stories that really had an impact was, for example, I did a.
Piece on how bishops are appointed. And that was amazing because I interviewed Archbishop Logie when he was the Nuncio here, and then I entered, I found some people who had worked in the congregation of Bishops in any case, and I put that story together. The amazing thing was that while I was doing after I finished interviewing Logie, he handed me a copy of the questionnaire they used for getting background on, on candidates to be bishop.
You know, it was, this was the questionnaire they would send people who know, who knew the candidate to ask him about. His attitudes, his feelings, you know, his theology, his pastoral skills, his position on a human vitae all of these kinds of things. It had never been published. And I published the first time for the first time, that document.
And I never told anybody it was Loggy. 'cause I don't know, I didn't wanna get him in trouble, but he became a cardinal anyway, so he did fine. But, later in, I heard that nuncio would send when someone was getting ready to retire as a bishop, they would send him this piece. Or if the administrator of a diocese, anybody who wanted to know, I.
How bishops were appointed would get referred to me. Even the Bishops Conference, since the press office there can't say anything. They would refer journalists to me and I would talk to them about how bishops were appointed. So there were things like that really had a, impact in the long run of opening up how this church operates, and then of course reporting every year on the bishops meetings, and then covering synods of bishops conclaves.
All of those I think were high points in my journalistic career. I.
HEIDI: Well, and the sheer volume of the things that you've written over the years, Tom is amazing. I mean, you're still cranking out a column every week. You go to these meetings, as you said, bishop's meetings, and you're writing sometimes a story every day. I, I hate to ask about the lows of your journalistic careers, and I'm assuming it's maybe your resignation at America.
Is there, is it something else or is there any. How are you reflecting on that the, these days now that there's some dis, you know, some distance and I know that America runs your column now, so so I know there's a better relationship there, but is that something you can share with our listeners at all?
TOM: Well, my relationship with America and with the Jesuits has always been extremely good. The provincials at the time when I was. Told to resign wa was very positive. They were very much on my side, but I knew they couldn't protect me if inger the Pope. Said, no, the re has gotta go then re has gotta go.
I mean, I had good friends who were great theologians, who were being silenced by Inger when he was head of the congregation for doctrine, the Faith. And there was very little the Jesuits could do to protect them. So I knew, you know, I knew that this was, but again it worked out. I went on to write some books and do some other things and write columns for the NCR and for religion news service.
So it all worked out in the end. And frankly, I'm glad I wasn't there for the, I was an editor during the papacy of Benedict. 'cause I don't know what I could have done.
HEIDI: Yeah. I think in some ways the public nature of your, your forest resignation gave you more credibility among a lot of journalists and other, other folks because of you know, you were, you were doing your journalistic job as an editor there. And, and allowing different sides of an opinion of a issue to be discussed.
One of the things that strikes me, and this goes back to my little story about the first time I met you, which you probably don't remember 'cause I was just a lowly diocesan newspaper reporter here in Chicago, but it was my first Bishop's meeting and it was in Chicago, so it must have been a, a summer June meeting.
And I was in the press room and all these journalists from the major. Publications were gathered around you in the press room and you were explaining to them what was going on during the meeting and what was really going on. You know, so see that guy, he, here's his background, here's the context to why they're talking about this.
And in addition to your own writing, it seems to me this has been one of your greatest contributions to the church. You're this source who can explain the complicated. Church to those who aren't a part of it or who maybe don't, you know, cover it regularly. So how did, how did this become part of your vocation?
Is this something you set out to do or is this another one of those accidental Hand of God things?
TOM: It's another one of those accidental things. The first Bishops conference I went to was down in Washington, dc I don't even remember what year it was. It had to be in the early eighties maybe. But in any case, I went down, got my credentials, picked up all the agenda material and it had the agenda material, had to be like six inches high.
I mean, a lot of paper. So like a good student. I took it home because and read it all that night. And so, and then came to the meeting and I was having fun getting to know the other journalists in the press room and you know, one of the journalists. Ask the, you know, the group of us, anybody know what this agenda item number five is about?
And nobody said anything. So I said, well, it's, you know, and all of a sudden I was surrounded by reporters taking notes because I had read the material the night before and nobody else had. That's how I became an expert. On the Catholic Church in the United States, plus the fact that I was wearing a Roman collar.
There was no, I mean, I had no background. I, this was my first, and I kind of started backing away. And, wait a minute. I'm just a journalist. I'm new here. And they said, oh, that's all right. You seem to know. It's you're talking about. And so that's how I started my career as an expert in in Catholicism.
It's amazing.
HEIDI: Well, I mean, you obviously had had studied, you know, the church already and had had studied the politics, you know, politics more widely. So I think you had quite a, quite a bit of expertise that you brought to it. I know as a journalist who calls on you as a source, occasionally, I. It's not just that you've done your homework, but first of all, you always take a journalist call and are willing to be interviewed, which not everybody answers and answers quickly.
And you're very good at like answering journalist questions succinctly. 'cause you know what we need. And honestly, so you never, you're not fearful of, of. Saying what needs to be said. So where, where does that come from? Have you ever been afraid or do you try to have, you had to be cautious. I mean, even after you, you left America, you still continued to speak out.
TOM: Well, I've always been very careful as a journalist to try and stick to the facts and to, you know, and if I don't know the answer to your question, I say, I don't know. So it's I, you know. I do accept phone calls from anybody who's, I mean, graduate students sometimes call me 'cause they're doing a paper.
That's fine. I, my, you know, part of my ministry is to be helpful and I see it as ministry to be helpful. I have rarely gotten into trouble. There was one time that a journalist kept asking me the same question over and over. He was trying to get a line from me and the next day the headline was or the story on the front page of his paper, I won't name the paper was you know, Archbishop Quinn says, a b, C, as you know, president of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, but Father Reese.
Says X, Y, Z. Well, it was a setup. He was a young journalist. He was trying to prove himself, get on the front page of his paper and keep his editor happy. I immediately went to Quinn and I said, we've been had, and Quinn said, yeah, sure. I know. Don't worry about it. And then I saw the journalist and I said, do you ever do that to me again?
I'll never talk to you. That's extremely rare that something like that happens. Sometimes I get journalists who don't know anything about religion, nothing. In one case I. Somebody, some reporter called me and was asking about celibacy. So I gave him my 10 minute lecture on celibacy. How, you know, in the first thousand years of the church, we had a mar married clergy.
In the second thousand years we had you know, the law of celibacy. I says, you know, for example. St. Peter the first, the, you know, Peter, the first Pope was married. We know that from the gospels. So I kept going on and on and when I finished, she said Peter, what was his last name? I said, I don't want my name in your column. I mean, sometimes that's the level of ignorance, but other times I remember getting a call from a reporter. Who knew nothing but about the appointment of Bishops, but he asked all the right questions and he did a wonderful story. So it's a mix.
HEIDI: Well, I love this ministry of being helpful. You're being helpful to our listeners here at the Francis Effect too. And as you talk about your dealings with journalists and of course your career as a journalist, I'm wondering what you're thinking about. The, the whole profession of journalism today, obviously things are changing.
Now we have podcasts and video. Certainly the social media has both. Brought news and information to people more broadly, but caused a lot of problems, and especially as we're facing the current, you know, political climate and issues in the church. What are you thinking about how journalism or religion, journalism specifically is practiced?
What do you think the challenges are today?
TOM: Well, there, there are a lot of very good journalists. You've got 'em at the NCR, we've got 'em at religion news Service. We, you know, and there are scores of them that would like to work for us. The biggest problem of journalism today is money. I. You know, in the old days you had subscriptions, but you also had advertising.
The newspapers across the country are folding because they no longer have advertising. You know, you go to Craigslist if you wanna sell your car, or if you're looking for a job, you don't go to the newspaper anymore. I remember when the New York Times would arrive on Sunday, and it would weigh a ton.
It was mostly ads. That's how it was financed. That's all gone. And you add on top of this social media, which is the spreading of rumor, not facts. And it's a problem. It's a real problem. So, uh, it's, I don't know the solution. As editor I had to raise money and try and make It Go.
Both America Magazine and NCR have always had a history of, as nonprofits of going to our subscribers and friends and getting donations. And that's, I mean, that's journalism today. It's a nonprofit, organiz industry. I wouldn't want my daughter to marry a journalist.
HEIDI: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's challenging, but so important. We're
TOM: Yeah,
HEIDI: recording. Yeah. We're recording this on the Friday of the first week of the second Trump administration, so I know it already feels like it's. Spend weeks or months, but it's been four days. And already we're seeing though church leaders speaking up to challenge Trump or caution him about some of his policies, especially around immigration.
There's obviously the episcopal bishop who's spoke to him, to his face and, and us bishops are speaking up. What's your impression? Of our current situation, not only for our country, but in terms of our church's involvement in the issues we're gonna be facing. Do you have any hope or what are your concerns?
TOM: Well, I have a lot of hope when it comes to immigration. I think the bishops are gonna be very loud on that. If you look at what they said during the first Trump administration, I. They were very vocal and used very harsh language in attacking the Trump administration, on immigration, on healthcare, on all these, they complimented them, of course, on pro-life issues, on abortion and what they term religious freedom issues, but they were very negative on other things.
My greatest concern, frankly, is on the issue of global warming. I mean, we don't have four years. To go backwards. We don't even have four years to be a neutral on global warming and, you know, future generations are gonna curse my generation. I mean, we were so lucky. We lived in the best of times you know, in, in my 80 years of life.
And. We're leaving a disaster for our descendants. And you know, when the oceans rise, when global warming does its disaster and we're seeing it all over the world, the disasters that are coming, and this is just the beginning, it's gonna be much, much worse by the end of the century. That depresses me terribly.
HEIDI: Well, and I know you've written a lot about environmental justice issues and we'll link in our show notes too to your book that you wrote the Study Guide to Go with Lato Sea. I know that's been very helpful to a lot of people over the years. Well, I just wonder, you know, we've kind of come to the end of our time, but I wanted to see if there was anything else you wanted to add and maybe just looking back you know, speaking.
Or for other Catholics of your generation who have, you know, been a part of the church, grew up, you know, in the aftermath, the second Vatican Council. Now we're in the time of Francis. Anything else that you wanna add for Catholics who are listening?
TOM: Well, I've lived in a marvelous time in. A Catholic church. I mean, there is This is Chinese curse. May you live in interesting times, and I have certainly lived in interesting times. I entered the Jesuits in the pre Vatican two days in 1962, just as the council was opening. I didn't even know the council was happening, and I didn't even know it happened.
We were so locked up and closed on a mountaintop in our novitiate. That we had no idea what was happening in the world or in the church totally cut off from any news or communications. And yet. It, the second Vatican Council just changed the church so dramatically, so revolutionary, and it was wonderful the way it changed now.
It was terrifying. I, it was scary when it was happening. We, I didn't know what the hell was going on. I held on by my. You know, by my fingernails while I saw so many of my classmates leave the priesthood or leave the seminary. And saw the church kind of in, in chaos, but it was, I. We were going in a wonderful direction and I think under Pope Francis we're continuing to go in that direction.
I mean for once the Catholic Church is on the right side of science for once we're on the right side of peace, on the right side of justice, you know, and this is encouraging. This is wonderful. It's just in my prayer is that we're not too late. In Popes and Francis' Encyclical, Lato Sea, you know, he's taking on the environmental issues the global warming issues. We're on the right side of peace. He's trying to bring countries together to stop killing one another.
We're not leading Crusades anymore, and he's on the right side of justice for civil rights, for human rights for, you know, this is wonderful for the, that the Catholic church is on the right side and, you know, history, I think is gonna look back and say, thank God the church was doing the right thing, as opposed to, you know, during Galileo and other times in the history of the church.
HEIDI: Well, I think we'll end on that hopeful note from you and I think our re our listeners will really appreciate that, especially as we're wondering where the future's going to be, be going for our country and for our church. But, but your ability to reflect back and discern looking backwards, I think will help us all to, to think about where we're going in the future as well.
So thank you so much for joining us here. We really appreciate it.
TOM: to be with you. I, Bye. Bye.